en English

 

13 year old Arthur, and his mum, Anna, join Dr Helen and Marianne for this first episode in our Young Voices podcast special. The pair share the two sides of this transition story, from Arthur coming out at age seven, through the day-to-day trials and tribulations of any normal teenager, to his aspirations of one day becoming an Olympian. Together, Arthur and his mum demonstrate that his being trans is the least interesting part about him.

If you have been affected by any of the topics discussed in our podcast, and would like to get in touch, please contact us via the Help Centre. You can also contact us on social media where you will find us at @GenderGP on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram.

We are always happy to accept ideas for future shows, so if there is something in particular you would like us to discuss, or a specific guest you would love to hear from, let us know. Your feedback is really important to us. If you could take a minute or two to leave us a review and rating for the podcast on your favourite podcast app, it will help others to discover us.

Links:

Mermaids http://mermaidsuk.org.uk/

 

The GenderGP Podcast

Young Voices. Raising a trans teen

 

Hello, this is Dr Helen Webberley. Welcome to our GenderGP Podcast, where we will be discussing some of the issues affecting the trans and non-binary community in the world today, together with my co-host Marianne Oakes, a trans woman herself, and our head of therapy.

 

Dr Helen Webberley:
This is the first of our series on young people and bringing to life some of our younger trans members of the trans community who’ve been gracious and generous enough to give us their time to tell you what it means to them to be trans and how it’s affected their life in good ways or maybe some bad ways, maybe how it’s affected their families. So really, really, really excited to welcome Arthur and his mum today. So, Arthur, thank you so much for joining us. I’m going to throw you right into the deep and say tell us all about you and your mum. Hi, mum.

Arthur:
Well, I do karate. (unclear 1:11).

Anna:
How old were you when you remembered being trans? And you said, I’ve always been. And that’s about right. It was so long ago, cause how old were you when you identified? It was about seven.

Arthur:
Seven, six.

Anna:
Six or seven years old when Arthur drew a picture and tried, and he didn’t have the word like. Obviously, he didn’t have the words. And I didn’t know the terminology either or anything. And he drew pictures. So he was about seven. So we’ve been in services since then. Since we came with yourselves, the stress of this beast, it’s been gone, hasn’t it? So you’ve forgotten about being trans, you’re just Arthur, aren’t you?

Arthur:
Yeah. That makes sense.

Marianne Oakes:
Can I just—what was your journey to finding GenderGP, if that’s not too big a question. It sounds like it was with the NHS before, would that be correct?

Anna:
Yes, Mermaids.

Arthur:
I got my hormone blocker through the NHS.

Anna:
It was a bit of a battle to get it, though.

Arthur:
I wanted testosterone. I needed it, I believe. But I couldn’t, because of how old do you have to be for the NHS? Older.

Anna:
Fifteen, sixteen.

Arthur:
Fifteen, yes. He was panic-stricken, weren’t you? And we saw the firm, but no, we found out about GenderGP when we met Helen actually at one of the Mermaids residentials. And Mermaids are fantastic in the early days. We haven’t been for a few years, but we just said I think we’re ready to check back in with them because I think he’s ready to find out more information about all the stuff that is coming up in the next few years and questions for other teenagers. So, we’ll check in with them again soon like we’ve been having for the past few years because it always coincides with his karate. But we were just there and talking to some of the young people. Non-binary people and about different people circumstances. Because we don’t often talk about trans stuff anymore, do we? We don’t need to. We’re lucky we don’t really need to. Cause I think everything is in place and Arthur’s a little bit blasé about it all. We met Helen at one of the residentials, and all I got from a nine-year-old boy was, “Have you (unclear 3:50) GenderGP? Have you (unclear 3:55)? When are we going to America?” And all I was thinking was we would have to remortgage the house. But yes, and it was always a kid, I think we didn’t know much about this stuff, but we always knew that we wanted to go private because that was the way to go because we were lucky to meet some other young people there, like 18, 19, 20 who had all been to America. And they were amazing. They looked amazing, they were fantastic, and they were like role models to see, and it was like, “Well, I am going to be like that.” He was really conscious and worked out from being eight, nine-year-old. Always swam, he was in a swimming club, as well, and he swam and (unclear 4:40). School was very good. We never had any problems with school. You went to CAMHS that came to the house a few times. And we had about eight sessions with CAMHS, and they came to the house. And then they just stopped coming after and said they didn’t need to come because he was fine, which was great. We were looking up that we didn’t need that. That’s it, really. The panic that we had before we got to yourselves was massive, I’ve got to say for myself. And you just were very demanding, wanting it. And the minute we got to GenderGP, and our medications and things have gone in place we breathed a big sigh of relief and said I could be who I am now. So, we don’t have any—the usual of a teenager.

Dr Helen Webberley:
Also, I was just going to ask you. I’m just interested. You say that you knew what it was all about when you were seven or realised something was there at seven, but you didn’t know what it was. And then you are going down to blockers on the NHS. So how did that come about? What did you have to do to get blockers?

Anna:
He had to be diagnosed.

Arthur:
I had to be diagnosed, and I had to see counselling for about two years and then—

Anna:
And then you had to go to London to see the medical side of it. But we went, and he was concerned that he was breast budding. So, we ended up getting the private appointment, to make sure that he was breast budding and was at the right Tanner stage, which we paid for. And then it came back that he was beginning to breast bud. So, we’ve had that and then referred us to London to see the medics there. And then he was diagnosed. He got his blockers. I think he was the youngest. They said he was the youngest child. And he was so relieved. And then, because all he had was looking at his chest, he was very proud of his chest, aren’t you? He’s always got it out.

Dr Helen Webberley:
You should be.

Anna:
There’s not going to be top surgery. So, we got that, and that was a bit of a sigh of relief. We’d been to the residential, and then the next week was trying to get to yourselves. We were looking at Germany and looking at America. Financially, we really couldn’t have maintained it. I mean we would have tried our hardest, we really would have, because we really needed to. But luckily, GenderGP came around, so we went to yourselves, didn’t we? And he’s just thrilled when we came to our appointment. We were on this crazy car mission in my little panda from the Northeast, to yourselves, (unclear 8:05) when we saw Mike, what a different experience that was, wasn’t it? It was nice. And we just came home, and it was like a big relief. And we’ve never looked back, really now. Everything is just on the calendar. And Arthur comes in and says your blocker’s here and this is there. If you put your tea on, that’s about all we do. And it’s all fantastic. And I’ve just been talking and saying what about school and things?

Arthur:
It’s just school.

Anna:
Everybody knows, and we don’t make a big deal of it at all, do we? Never had any problems.

Dr Helen Webberley:
What about—go on, Marianne, sorry. After you.

Marianne Oakes:
I was just going to say that everybody at school knows about your trans identity?

Arthur:
Yeah, basically. Yeah.

Marianne Oakes:
And I’m assuming that you’re cool with that, as well. Look at you, smiling and talking.

Arthur:
Yeah, I’m fine.

Marianne Oakes:
Fantastic.

Anna:
I just asked him earlier, and (unclear 9:14). Because I think when we were in primary, we moved primary school and somebody said they knew your secret. And I think that was a big turning point. I remember being really (unclear 9:35) nights and say you should contact their mum. I was like, no, is there anything (unclear 9:45) there you are. You’re perfect in every way. And so, you stand to be counted for. And I think that was the best thing we ever did. You know, and I did. Because I just worried as a parent. It was cool, wasn’t it?

Dr Helen Webberley:
Tell me about your karate, Arthur, because that was one of the things. When I said tell us all about you, that was the first word that came out of your mouth was karate. So obviously, that’s a big thing for you. Tell us about that.

Arthur:
Well, I started when I was like six-ish, wasn’t it? And I’ve just done it till now. But now it’s quite serious now, isn’t it? Every day, but I enjoy it.

Anna:
You were selected for the British Squad.

Arthur:
I was selected for the British Squad. In January.

Dr Helen Webberley:
So how did that happen? How did you get onto the British Squad?

Arthur:
I have to be fair to say that you get on the British Squad, and then you get picked from the British Squad to go all the way and represent them. Cause it was in Moscow, wasn’t it? (unclear 11:10) And then I got picked from my club squad to go out and try out for the British Squad. And I got in. Because (unclear 11:22) fight someone and then just looked at you and see if you’ve got potential and they just chose me.

Marianne Oakes:
I was just going to say, what does that mean now, Arthur? Do you have to go away from home and do competitions? Or is it still in your locality?

Arthur:
I do both. We already went to Leicester and sort of Liverpool. Youth nationals and stuff like that. But then, once a year, isn’t it? Once a year-ish.

Anna:
Twice, but because of the lockdown there hasn’t been anything.

Arthur:
Twice a year, it’s like a bigger competition would take place, and I do nationals. The northern. But then you get picked from the British Squad to go away. So, from like all the countries, like, the best from Britain and the best from Spain maybe, and something like that. And then we’ll meet.

Anna:
They pick a selection of certain age groups to represent England. But I don’t think it’s going to happen this year, is it?

Arthur:
No.

Anna:
But we’re still doing training online every day. It’s gone to outside now, hasn’t it?

Arthur:
Yeah, outside training.

Dr Helen Webberley:
So is it a gender-segregated sport? Or does it not matter what gender you are.

Arthur:
Yeah, well, I just compete in boys. (unclear 13:10) I compete in 13 to 16. But then, it’s in five foot and over. I am five foot five, and there are quite a few tall ones, but that’s alright. (unclear 13:40).

Anna:
There was panic in the last time the last year.

Arthur:
Because I’d just turned 13, and I was 5 foot 5 and under, wasn’t it? But it was fine because there are different groups.

Anna:
He’s grown lately. He’s had a bit of a growth spurt, so he’s thrilled. I think it’s lockdown because he’s never stopped eating.

Dr Helen Webberley:
Have you got siblings? Have you got brothers and sisters, a family?

Arthur:
A sister. I’ve got a sister and cousins.

David:
And an amazing father.

Anna:
His little sister, she’s pretty, she’s seven.

Dr Helen Webberley:
And what about your family, Arthur? It strikes me that your trans identity doesn’t really seem to be a part of any of your life at the moment. You’re just Arthur, and that’s your mum, and that’s your dad, and that’s your sister, and there’s your family kind of thing. Does it crop up at all? I mean, if you look at the newspapers, and you look at the internet, and what have you, there are so many families that have such difficulty with people trying to understand it. Have you had any difficulties like that?

Arthur:
Well, at the start, it was a bit—well, it wasn’t difficult. It was strange to everyone. I think everyone was (unclear 15:20) after about a year and then it was just Arthur.

Anna:
Dad found it hard to believe. When we used to go to the counselling, we used to call it dad’s counselling session. Often, it was hard for us as parents. It was us that needed to understand it to support him. And time’s gone on, we’ve learned that it’s not an issue anymore. We shouldn’t make it an issue. We couldn’t help it at the time because it was such a big thing. And you would think about stuff constantly, about what he wore, what he looked like, what he wanted. We worried about what people would say, and although you didn’t want to make this, sometimes you did. I think we’re lucky that he was small because we got away with it. But I think if he was a teenager, that must be so hard because sometimes you can’t do right for doing wrong. (unclear 16:20) We researched everything loads, and we went to (unclear 16:26) met different families, and it was meeting other people that helped the most. And then, we sort of stepped out of it since we didn’t need it. And I remember when we asked him because we used to go to residential. And do you want to go? And he’s like, no, I’m too busy. It was a breath of fresh air, it was like, wow, we can leave it and we have for some time now, haven’t we?

Arthur:
Yeah.

Dr Helen Webberley:
So, you say your dad found it hard, did he, Arthur?

Arthur:
Yeah.

Anna:
He did, didn’t he? He cried, he broke down, didn’t he, a few times, which is really hard, because he’s not that kind of man. I remember seeing him like that, and he felt that he was grieving. He felt that he’d lost his daughter, and that was really hard. But luckily, we used to go to Leeds, and we drove there, and we’d get something to eat and have a laugh and have a treat afterwards, didn’t we? We needed that. Dad needed it. And I did as well. The family really needed it, as well. But, and then, everything slipped into place, hasn’t it?

Dr Helen Webberley:
So, if you had to give advice to another dad out there at the moment, or another mum, who is struggling, who is a few years behind you now, what would you say to them while they were still doing that grief? Because we read a lot, don’t we, that it is like a loss. I mean, Marianne, I am sure you have something to say as well afterwards, but what would you say to other mums and dads out there who are finding it tricky?

Arthur:
I’d just say—I don’t want to say don’t care, but just like, get on with it. I mean, just support us and listen. For me, I didn’t really want—I just wanted to be Arthur, and that was it. Do you know what I mean? I didn’t really want to think about being trans or anything.

Dr Helen Webberley:
I can see it from your face that it’s almost like you’re saying, hey look, don’t worry about me, I’m going to be fine. You’re doing the worrying but leave it. I’m fine. I’m going to be fine. Just let me be Arthur, and don’t worry.

Arthur:
Yeah.

Anna:
That’s all he wanted. And he didn’t like that there were all this thinking and all this research. I used to research things and then write a list of what we have coming up, and I would say look at this. And he wouldn’t be interested, and he would be like why? You need to learn to back off and stop worrying. We’re okay. We were possibly making issues at some point where we used to push it a little bit and just let him be what he wants to be. (unclear 19:34) You could have just let it go, which we did. It takes time as a parent to do that because you want to protect them.

Marianne Oakes:
You said something earlier, which struck a chord. You said if Arthur had been older coming out, and he had to witness the struggles that you and your husband had, that it could have been more damaging. But because Arthur was younger, you’ve all kind of gone through, and you’ve arrived at this place where it’s just Arthur now.

Anna:
Not just medically. But I mean it’s fantastic that he’s able to develop like his peers. Which is what we strived to be. And I think we would have had huge problems then. When he was little, I used to research stuff and try and push and look at this, shall we do that, have you read this, look at these words, you might be to explain it more and how do you feel? As a little boy, he was able to say no mum. As a teenager, I can’t imagine how it would go. And you can hurt their feelings so much more, can’t you when they’re older? And I think it was hard enough when he was little. And because he used to be hurt by—and it didn’t take that long because he wrote a list of names. He wrote a list of about ten names, didn’t you? Straight away, when we identified, he wrote these pictures of a man and a woman and said that he was neither one nor the other. And he knew he couldn’t be—he wasn’t the girl. He wanted to be that, and he couldn’t be that when he was seven. He was very upset he couldn’t talk. I thought there was something wrong with him. And I remember when he went to bed, he said that we couldn’t make this right, mum. And I said but oh, we can. And coming up to Christmas, and he wrote a list of all these names, didn’t you? And we tried to cut the names. And even the names I spoiled it, and dad, because he was called Poppy when he was born. And what did you pick? We tried Billy because it was nearest to Poppy. And it was us that manipulated that. And we were thinking of other people, we were thinking that it would be easier for people to move from that. I don’t know why Billy because it’s not at all related. But for Christmas, when Santa came that year, there were all these presents with different names on, we found this one named Arthur. And in the end, it was the perfect thing, is Arthur. So I remember that Christmas it was quite special. And Santa left a note, didn’t he, and said, I’m sorry you kept changing your name, and I am so glad you changed your mind because it was three lots of presents, three piles of presents in different names. But yeah, I think if our relationship wasn’t pushed to the limits because he was that younger, because it was a learning curve mainly for us to accept him and to let him move the way he wanted, at his pace. And we were trying to make it easy for everybody in the outside world, really. And for us to try and protect him, but we’re making things worse till we kind of backed off a little bit. But I think we were lucky that we were young because it was a lot easier. We were very lucky.

Dr Helen Webberley:
Marianne, in your work with young people and families, how often is it that the work needs to be done with mum and dad to help them through it and then the kid knows who they are and what they are?

Marianne Oakes:
This isn’t the first time I’ve said this, but you know, either online or in the therapy room, these poor children are pushed in front of me because the parents are saying they need counselling, and actually it’s the parents that need the counselling. And I can say, how can I say, smiling listening to you as you talk because you’re saying and I think the best advice you could give to any parent is gone and sort yourselves out? If your child is confident, don’t make them not confident because you’re not. And I just wish the parents were here now. Because the child is getting on and okay, but the parents’ anxieties start rubbing off on the child, and I think that is what you were alluding to when you say if Arthur was a bit older, it could have been more damaging. Your fears could have been more damaging to Arthur.

Anna:
Yeah, most definitely. I think it could have ended up really breaking down relationships massively, you know. I can imagine as a teenager because he’s cheeky now. And with all that confusion, wow, you’d be at heads fighting and arguing, and that’s not where you want to be.

Dr Helen Webberley:
Go on, Marianne.

Marianne Oakes:
I was just going to say that I have seen young people that are just determined to leave home. They kind of tuned out from the parents at a younger age and it’s sad for everybody, then. And you’re right. If only there was a magic formula just to say that if your child comes out as trans if you tick this box, everything will be fine. But there isn’t. The process that everybody is going through, if it’s not recognised, it can be damaging. Hence, I promote counselling to everybody.

Dr Helen Webberley:
Whether it’s the mum or the dad or the child, isn’t that so?

Marianne Oakes:
Just one last thing, if I may just share. I did have a father come to see me, face to face, and he’d been off work, and work said that they could pay for some counselling. And it just so happened that they’d got a trans boy child. And he was the perfect father. He’d never broken down. It’d just been really proactive and supportive. And the child had been transitioned two years, with the help of GenderGP, and was starting to thrive like Arthur. And the dad just had all this emotional stuff. When he came to see me, the one thing that came out was that he said I am smiling, but I am not happy. And I can’t tell my child I am not happy. And through the counselling, he was able to say everything. And then six weeks later, he was where he needed to be. I thought what a brave man to come and admit that, if you know what I mean.

Anna:
(unclear 26:49) broke down. It was a real shock because it came from nowhere, didn’t it? And even Dave, but it was always—it was never—just, you have to wait. And there was always a little bit of questioning of everything about him, really. And there was never really anything positive to grab hold on to. The outcome of the session was all of us in the car on our way home to Leeds talking about what had happened, wasn’t it? And about how we felt. And he was able to accept Arthur, wasn’t he? He did anyway, didn’t he? But he just couldn’t—I think David found it very hard telling other people. But he’s great now, and grandad has gotten a hold of it now, hasn’t he?

Dr Helen Webberley:
It’s the grownups sometimes that get worried, isn’t it? Everyone else, the youngsters are fine. It’s the big grownups that are worried. I’m going to take you back to when you were talking a minute ago about that you were lucky he was younger and not a teenager. And it is really hard, I mean I’ve had teenage kids, Marianne’s had teenage kids, you’ve got a teenage kid. It’s hard, isn’t it? Bringing up teenage kids is difficult enough as it is, but then to not know whether the tantrum is about being a teenager or whether the tantrum is about being trans or whatever else the big life issue is for them at the moment—it’s hard, isn’t it? And often mums say that. I don’t know if this is because they’re a teenager or because they’re trans and struggling with that. It’s really hard, isn’t it?

Anna:
Yeah. Well, I kind of decided this about a year ago and said I’m not making excuses anymore because you’re trans. Because, I have, I think I have. I think I have always been very protective of him. And it was like, I feel awful, but I have said, just because you’re trans doesn’t mean you can behave like that. And at the end of the day, it’s got nothing to do with this. We’re not going to make, and I’m not going to make any issues. Because I think he has pulled a few strings about it to manipulate, maybe getting a few things that he wants.

Dr Helen Webberley:
You wouldn’t do that, would you? You wouldn’t do that.

Anna:
That has gone now. And I am not jumping for it no more.

Marianne Oakes:
I’m on Arthur’s side. We’ve got to pull out that card now and then.

Anna:
It was before you started your T, wasn’t it? When he was on blockers, his mood started to drop, and that was quite hard. That was really hard for me to watch and when he started to research, you think oh my goodness he’s gone through all of these symptoms, is he? Because he’s sad and he has a few tears, and he doesn’t cry very often, he’s a toughie. And he told mum I don’t know how I feel. And there was nothing wrong, but I just feel awful. And so we started looking at his blocker. And that was awful to see. That was really awful to see. And I kept asking constantly, are you happy with this, are you happy with that? And there was nothing, there was no answer. But things did pick up massively when he started T, and you don’t have your mood swings at all now, do you, with the blocker?

Arthur:
No, no.

Anna:
You could see the mood swings, and I was very—I used to write it on the calendar. If I could identify what was happening with the blocker, I could see if his mood was dropping because you seem very quiet. And that was just going to comprehensive school as well. So that was a big moving point. Cause I was worried about comprehensive school and whether that was going to change. And with him being trans, was there going to be any problems? Is there going to be any bullying? Is there going to be any issues? And then he got his moods, and his body, and I think the way he was changing with his confidence has gone a lot from starting T. Because he did use to be a bit like a robot. He was very robotic. He wasn’t able to express any emotions much when he was on the blockers, just blocker. He didn’t have any. You could see that he wanted this really expensive scooter, and it was the highlight of his life, and I remember we got it, and then there was nothing we could see. And Arthur was like, I can’t, I am not able to express even how he felt about it. It’s odd, wasn’t it? He was very adamant that he was going through (unclear 31:51). It was just in his (unclear 31:55). We’ll go there, and it’s not a problem.

Dr Helen Webberley:
Swim over. Did anyone tell you along the way that you just give it some time, and he will grow out of this, and he will be okay? Did you ever get that?

Anna:
I’m trying to think of it. Yeah, we did. I think they said that at our last appointment when we stopped going, is that he was too young to make up his mind. He was far too young to make up his own mind, and he couldn’t make these really strong decisions at that age. Although we’d been going for years, we’d been going for two and a half years. And that was the final letter that I got from the Tavistock, that Arthur was too young to make these massive decisions about his life and about who he was, which I didn’t believe. And I just asked Arthur, because I used to get angry, I used to get upset when we went to these appointments. I mean, we would all go as a family initially, it got us together as a family and accepted Arthur initially. But then as things went on, I found it really (unclear 33:15) because it was just negative all of the time. And really, really negative. There was nothing to grab on to. There was nothing to keep going for. It was awful. He just said he ignored it, which I think he did. I didn’t think he listened. It was all very channeled about, “I will get this. I will get this, and everything will be fine.” But it affected me massively, and I used to get—I remember I still got the letters, so I kept everything. And the first appointment he was about eight, or seven and a half, and it said to watch a film about, what’s it called, Only Boys Cry, or what was it? It was tragic, and I never really watched it through yet. And that was in the formal things in the Tavistock, and I can’t believe that was in there. We got to the point where we didn’t get much from it, did we? It was you have to wait, and you do know that, and you’ve got a long time to go. Even when we used to go for the bloods, they used to say that to you. I don’t think so.

Dr Helen Webberley:
And the other question that lots of people will always ask, and not at the Tavistock, but people on social media and people who have never met a real-life trans person, they’ll just say, children cannot make decisions like this. They are too young. So, what would you say to them, Arthur? If someone said that to someone like you about their child, what would you say to them?

Arthur:
I’d say just look at me. I mean, if I was a little girl, I just wouldn’t be—I mean, I’ve obviously made the decision on my own, and if I didn’t do that, I think I would be very sad, and I don’t really know. If I wasn’t a boy, I can’t see myself not being, to be honest. If someone said something like that, I can’t get my head around it, to be honest. I mean, I can make my own decisions. And I know some people might say, oh, you’re unsure. Some people could be unsure, but I had all that counselling for two years, I’m not going to change my mind after that.

Dr Helen Webberley:
Yeah. And, Marianne, what do you think? I mean, you see and hear it here so often, don’t you? And then what you are presented with here is someone who absolutely knows who they are, and with the rest of the world worrying about it, apart from one person.

Marianne Oakes:
We are gender-affirming in our approach, and what that means is that we believe the patient. The point of the exercise is not to disbelieve the patient. It’s to help them to manage their journey on their terms. And I don’t care whether they’re nine or whether they’re ninety. My experience with gender—you said something before, Arthur, you made the decision. I don’t think we do make a decision to be trans. The only decision we’ve got is how hard we fight to be who we are. And when our fight starts, as your parents have discovered, there are some of the people you probably met when you’re doing karate, and you were in the (unclear 36:56) discovered. When that fight to be who we are starts, whatever age that is, there is no holding back. And we can either help, or we can do damage. There doesn’t seem to be a middle ground. And the trouble is, this watch and wait, which is what Helen was referring to when you were talking, Arthur, all I could picture is you picking your gold medal at the Olympics, I am glad I didn’t wait.

Arthur:
Yeah.

Anna:
Definitely.

Dr Helen Webberley:
Before we finish, is there anything you would like to say? Because there are lots and lots of people who are going to be listening to this. There will be people who have trans people in their family, there will be people who have friends who are trans, and there will also be people who have never met someone who is trans. They could be interested. Is there anything you would like to say to the people who are listening now?

Arthur:
Well, when I think now, well, I am transgender, but I don’t think of myself as transgender. I am obviously transitioning from being a female to male, but I am a male, do you know what I mean? I don’t think, I don’t tell someone I am transgender, and I am Arthur. I wouldn’t say that to someone if I met someone. I say I am Arthur. I am Arthur. And like you say, I am thinking the term transgender. And I am transgender, I’ve always been. You know, but when I think about really, I am just Arthur. That’s who I identify as, Arthur.

 

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