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During Dr Helen Webberley’s hearing we’re bringing you Transitions, a new mini-series from the GenderGP podcast. GenderGP team member, Cleo Madeleine, will be joined by members of the community to talk about the journeys they have been on, the transitions they have been through and the moments that changed everything.

Jamie’s store is Unisex Unity. We have loads of links for healthcare professionals in our Medical Hub, and if you’d like to find out more about the GenderGP Fund you can visit our website. If you’ve got a story of your own you’d like to share, why not reach out on social media where you can find us at @GenderGP on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram.

 

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The GenderGP Podcast

Transitions: Jamie

 

Cleo Madeleine:
Hi there. My name’s Cleo Madeline from gender GP, and I’m stepping in for Dr. Helen Webberley for a special new mini series of the gender GP podcast. Over the next few weeks, we’ll hear firsthand accounts from members of the community, the journeys they’ve been on, the transitions they’ve been through and the moments that changed everything. Hi everybody. And welcome back to another episode of the gender GP podcast today in the studio with me, I’ve got Jamie franchini. Hi, Jamie, could you tell us a bit about who you are and what it is that you do?

Jamie Franchini:
I am currently a student chiropractor in my final year, and I’ve just opened an online unisex store. I’ve been socially transition now, female to male for about just over a year. And luckily I had the positives of lockdown to actually explore that transition and, you know, to really, yeah, I, I guess kind of like self indulge, a bit reading and watching YouTube and, and

Cleo Madeleine:
That’s actually really interesting to hear because I’ve seen quite a lot of horror stories about how, uh, you know, lockdown has been bad for the L G B T community in one way or another. And I’m absolutely certain that that is the truth, but it’s really cool to hear that actually, that almost enforced period of gave you some

Jamie Franchini:
Time. Yeah. I mean, I’m quite a social person, but I also I’m quite sensitive to other people’s emotions. So I think that, yeah, I think it just allowed me the time to have enough of the changes from testosterone to feel more confident to go out in the world, because obviously there’s the issue of not being able to pass or more so that people assume people’s pronouns. Mm. So for me, especially in my degree, it’s a lot of physical practice, so yeah, I just needed that time to basically look different, come back with a much deeper voice. And now I’m seeing student again, it’s almost like coming back as a completely different person.

Cleo Madeleine:
I think that’s really valuable. I mean, it’s now donkeys is since I transitioned, but one of the bits of advice I have often given is if you can, and I know that not everyone can because of work and time and you know, sometimes the pandemic doesn’t come at the right time. But, um, one of the bits of advice I always try to give is when you are socially transitioning, whether it’s at work or at school, or just in general, try and give yourself a bit of a clean break, even if it’s just a weekend, you know, with me at work, it was, I took a day off on Friday, sent everyone an email and then came back on Monday. It gives you a chance to sit with it for a moment. It also gives the people around you chance to sit with it for a moment. And, you know, like I say, it’s not gonna be an option for everybody, but I do think it can be really valuable to just give ourselves that time, even if it’s only a small window.

Jamie Franchini:
I think you hear a lot of the responses from everyone. You know, I heard a lot of people mention grieving and people also forget that even though it’s an amazing time for you, I underestimated my own grieving. For example, you know, all the memories with friends or videos I have from the past and the type of persona I had before was actually quite different because I wasn’t happy. And now <affirmative>, I feel like my complete self it’s, it’s insane. How much more simple of a person I actually am. I think like, for example, I used to write music. I wanted to do gigs and I did some gigs and then I had some music on Spotify and I dunno what happens, but since transitioning, I guess I just, I don’t feel the urge to express that kind of like sadness I had. Um, but part of me is also sad about that because like, I can’t sing how I used to, my voice has changed dramatically. Yeah. I dunno if you found that, I dunno if you found differences is with your persona before.

Cleo Madeleine:
No, totally. I think it’s such a profound thing you’ve touched on there partially this idea of grief that is really under recognized in the idea of transition. We are always so happy to become our best selves. That it’s easy to forget that there is this complicated process of the things that, that you leave behind, but also yeah, the way that it changes things that you’d never expect it to change, like your creative processes. Like I also used to sing, I used to do musical theater before. Wow. And then I guess I don’t even think it was an underlying physiological process so much as a psychological block that I developed around my voice. And I can’t, I can’t really pitch anymore in the same way that I used to. And yeah, it’s quite sad. You do feel like you’ve sort of lost something. And I think that’s the way that I like to think of it is that loss, however you want to call it is a kind of chain mentioned that we are always changing in one way or another. We are always losing something. You know, another way of talking about it might be that I totally feel you on the songwriting front because, um, I used to write a lot of poetry that we came from a place of being like very uncomfortable within my body, trying to reconcile my body to myself. Um, and like it emerged from the struggle with that. And then as I became more comfortable with myself, my output just massively dropped off and then it’s own in relatively recent years that I found other motivators for that writing, which is something that honestly I’m confident could happen with you and your music. I don’t necessarily think that these are things that are taken away when we stop being sad. So much as that sadness is such a strong motivator for art that it can take time to replace it. Yeah,

Jamie Franchini:
Actually, it’s good that you said that cuz it, I guess it’s, it’s a skill you’ve developed, but it’s finding possibly a, I don’t wanna say a better outlet, but what I found was the more sad songs I was singing and writing the thing is, is then I was stuck in that emotion. And then now I guess what I feel like you’re trying to say is, yeah, like you found your writing in a different way and I guess you are also with the blogs and everything you’re doing and meeting people, you’re almost channeling that creativity through that. Whereas I’ve also just studied four, five years of intense science. So that has made me extremely more logical than I thought was going to happen. So I’m hoping that once I’m actually working, maybe I can then explore more the pre reduction side of music. I think that’s more where it’s going to at the moment, also performing and singing in front of people is terrifying. I never got confident with it. You know, it’s just, oh the nerves for weeks before <laugh>, you know, and I never had any training or anything. So I don’t know what it was like for you.

Cleo Madeleine:
Yeah. I mean, I used to do the whole lot. I used to be, uh, as you know, perform on stage, I was in plays, I even wrote and directed some stuff that went around the country and I’ve always kind of wanted to go back to it. But yeah, I, I dunno if it was, it’s funny, you know, I’d like to think that I’m old enough now that I’ve developed a kind of reflection on my relationship with my past self, but I really couldn’t tell you exactly what happened. I suppose it was a combination of being younger and also being unhappy in a way that almost made me not care and sort of not really caring, you know, if lots of people looked at me because I didn’t really value myself and then learning to value myself is also brought with it, this quite complicated feeling about how I’m perceived. I wish I had like the necessary qualifications to answer these kinds of questions. I feel like I’m just no grasping

Jamie Franchini:
At straws here. No, that’s such an interesting point. Actually. I, I honestly look back at myself there, some things I’ve done and I’m just cringing because I, I don’t wanna be ashamed and it’s not, it’s not really, it’s not bad things. I didn’t hurt anyone or anything, but I completely understand the viewpoint of like, I never identified as a lesbian. I was always say that I was gay and I always wanted to wear like men’s clothes and look like a man. But when you have a female body putting on men’s clothes, especially I used to have like probably double D. So it just didn’t look right for me, obviously everyone is into huddle to their own. Everyone’s, it’s just a perspective. But what I’m trying to say is like, I couldn’t express how I wanted to. So then what happens is I feel like you make a persona. You’re almost trying to scream that masculinity. But what I ended up doing was the complete opposite. I became the girl. I would want it, there was periods in my life that I became so feminine because the only way I could do it was to like find myself attractive. But from the point of view of that’s a hot girl, which sounds really weird. I don’t know if anyone else has gone through this, but then I also had friendships that were really girly because I tend to see myself as straight. So I’ve always been around straight people, not people, but they would put me in dresses, put makeup on me. And it’s just, you look back at the pictures and I’m so uncomfortable. Like once I wore a tight black dress and heels and I was just sat slouch with a Guinness in my hand, you know, it wasn’t. Yeah, for me, I kept trying to find a different way apart from transitioning. I really tried to not do it because I was terrified.

Cleo Madeleine:
I actually think that’s a really important observation. There’s anti-trans people or even just people who are confused or don’t understand about transgender issues, who are really concerned about the idea that people transition too quickly, you know, that we’re gonna like make the wrong decision and do it too fast or something. But actually what you’ve said, there is so true. There really aren’t that many people who have these feelings and that immediately are like, right. Well, I’m gonna transition the far more often. What you see is these quite agonizing thought processes where you think, you know, what, what is going on with me? What do I need to do about this? It doesn’t always present as the solution.

Jamie Franchini:
You know what, one of the best feelings about I’m only a year into transitioning a year and a half, whatever is having a couple of people come and talk to me about their own gender identity. And like, it genuinely makes me like tear up right now because it’s, I’m just, I’m like what? I still have no idea what’s going on. And I’ve said to a couple of people, do you think a lot of your CIS friends have questioned their gender? And I think somebody said, yeah, they came out as non-binary. Then they said that, you know, it’s normal to question it or the fact that I don’t want my chest. And then I’ve thought, well, I don’t know if you ask a lot of CIS people. I don’t think many people have sat for hours, you know, anxious, worried, overthinking so many things. And I think the more that we come together as a trans non binary community, and just talk about our experience that I think is how hopefully gonna be enough to make a change.

Cleo Madeleine:
I think one of the most important things that things like this podcast can offer and that you telling your story on things like this podcast can offer, is it helps to share that story and that voice with other members of the community who might not have been able to share it or who might have been able to hear it, cuz it can be very isolating if you don’t have other people to share those stories

Jamie Franchini:
With. No, definitely. I think I’d always heard about trans women because of, well the massive negativity in the media I’ve I can’t remember what the documentaries that I watched, but it showed you how trans women have been real represented in the media and movies. And it’s just disgusting that somebody has treated people like that. But I always knew about trans women, but I had no idea about trans men until I was 21. And I was watching Jamie on YouTube and I saw his flat chest and I cried for hours. I was alone in my room and I’ll never forget this day. I cried because all of my dysphoria of my chest, I didn’t know what it was until that video. I had no idea that there was a surgery for it. I used to like push my breast down every night. You much fold my arms and would think, oh, that looks better. But I didn’t understand that that was dysphoria. I just thought I was like body conscious. And I always see these people on YouTube. I’m like, you’re so brave because for example, me as a chiropractor, I don’t know any other transgender chiropractor yet. And it is kind of scary because I’m going into an environment of quite wealthy middle class people where I’m like, do I come out as a transgender chiropractor? And I push forward with that or do I need to mask and be seen as a CIS white man and take all the privilege. But a part of me cannot do that. I feel like I’m safe enough in my environment to talk. And it’s like scary, but I feel like I almost owe it to the community to share my story back. Yeah.

Cleo Madeleine:
It’s such a difficult decision to know that there is a certain baggage that comes with openly being yourself, particularly in the professional world, but also to feel that you have almost a duty. So talk to me a bit about chiropractor. How did you get into this line of work?

Jamie Franchini:
Well, basically when I was 15, I wanted to be a physio because I, I always played basketball, football, and I saw a physio, I think when I was in the basketball team. So I thought, wow, this is really cool to like fix sports into ju work with athletes. And then I don’t know. I, I always used to just massage my friends. It’s just really been something really natural for me. And I really like, I don’t know. I, I dunno why my friends would always be like, oh, my shoulders are tighter then I just would always massage them. And

Cleo Madeleine:
No, it sounds great. I, I wish you were in my friendship group. <laugh>

Jamie Franchini:
I was just known as doing that. And then God, yeah, I went to Thailand when I was 18 to do a massage course. I like lived on a Greek island for a few years and then I honestly couldn’t get into physiotherapy and then I chose chiropractic and it’s so crazy how life always gives you the path that you need because I just fell into it. And most people in this degree, like their parents do it, their brother does it. So it’s like a family tradition and I’m the first person in my family to be getting a master’s degree. You know, I’m not from a wealthy background, I’m not from a highly educated background. So I’ve like been put in this environment with really wealthy, really privileged people. And then I come out as trans and it’s just, it’s just so anyway, I’ve completely rambled on, but that’s like the short journey of

Cleo Madeleine:
Why. No, not at all. That’s an amazing journey, right? Like pursuing your professional goals and also so your personal goals. So you’re looking at chiropractic as a professional future and you know, who knows like the, the fact that there isn’t really an open L G B T plus sphere, there might mean that you are the person to do that. We spoke to my colleague Ezra in a recent podcast and they were talking about how, um, in a similar vein they’ve been trading as a barber partially motivated by the fact that it’s so hard to find an L G B T friendly barber.

Jamie Franchini:
That’s amazing. And it makes such a difference because the first time I went to a barber, actually I called them up and asked if they accepted me for being a trans man. What, why, why did I feel it? It was like a student free day where they just cut people’s hair for free. And actually I was looking if I would’ve found an L G B T plus Barbara, like Ezra said, yeah, I would definitely have chosen that now that I passed, I don’t care where I go, but those first steps are so important because if somebody was a bit funny with you, you may not wanna go again. You know, that, that fear. Yeah. It’s

Cleo Madeleine:
Crazy that on the one hand we feel like we have to let call ahead and check that we’re gonna be okay. You know, it seems ridiculous that that’s the state of affairs, but also that kind of is the state of affairs. And it does make it all the better when, whether it’s chiropractic or barbering. That is an L G T friendly option. Yeah,

Jamie Franchini:
That, that was kind of my idea, as I thought to have a flag on the website or just some something that only this community will see, but it’s not big enough for, or the majority of the public or, or the minority who are against it to kind of cuz obviously I, I am someone that as long as you don’t cause harm to someone else, I think everyone is entitled to their own perspective and opinion. I, I, I don’t think everyone should love trans people. They don’t have to understand it. I don’t don’t care. I don’t care what you think and feel in your own mind until you spread hate and negativity and discrimination, then it’s not okay. But it’s the fact that I’m also like, why, why do I need to be shy about it? Like, do I really want those patients? Do I really want, wanna touch the bodies of people that don’t agree with my deepest parts of like my, my soul? You know, this isn’t just, oh, I like to wear red shoes and not black shoes.

Cleo Madeleine:
So while we’re on the subject of, um, like more L G B T friendly businesses, you mentioned, you’ve got your, this other project, this retailer that you run, um, how did that come about?

Jamie Franchini:
This is so random. I was post top surgery and I had a lot of time and I’m not good with just doing nothing. I, I really, my, my brain is you can probably tell already it’s pretty not manic. I’ve learned to breathe. I’ve learned to stay calm, but I need to be doing stuff because like my brain, I wake up, it’s awake and it shuts off at night. Like it it’s very awake anyway. So I was just looking at drop shipping businesses and I was also thinking, well, I managed to get money from friends and family fundraising, basically for my top surgery. And then I thought, how about I kind of combined that I saw these drop shipping stores with the idea of trying to raise money for trans youth or to some kind of transgender fund to support. Yeah. And I basically just opened an online shop and to explain a bit about drop shipping. It’s basically all these massive retailers globally. I select products from them to sell, but when somebody buys a product, I then buy it from the retailer and they send it to you. So it means that I don’t have to buy products in a natural store, but then I came into contact with you and gender GP. And you spoke about your transgender youth fund. So then I thought, wow, that would be amazing. So I’ve added on the website when you purchase something, you can add a tip which will be sent to the transgender youth fund. So I also just really wanted a store without a binary focus. You know, what, if a guy wants to buy a pink t-shirt with loads of flowers on it, like, who gives a? I just wanted to have a store where like you can just shop and look. And if it is really typically feminine or masculine or whatever, there’s no binary labels or there shouldn’t be on there. So it’s mostly clothes, some shoes. And then there’s an 18 plus section because that’s another thing that’s just too gender specific. Think when you’re shopping for stuff. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know? Yeah. It sucks. Actually, I, if I go onto online sex shop or something, I can’t go in the men’s section. Right. Because I don’t have the anatomy of a man, but I am a man, but then I have to go into the women’s section, but everything’s pink and it’s yeah. <laugh>, that’s not what I want. <laugh>

Cleo Madeleine:
Yeah. It’s such an oversight as well. Right. Because you know, I don’t wanna speak for everyone here, but I’m sure there are lots of trans people out there who want to have sex <laugh> yeah. So just for the listeners at home, Jamie’s store is unisex unity, and we’re gonna drop a link in the bio there for you to check it out. I personally am super glad you’ve branched out into shoes cuz I am forever struggling to find shoes that I both like, and that fit me, this to me, even just knowing there’s another option out there is an absolute godsend.

Jamie Franchini:
Yeah, that’s true. Actually I was on Reddit posting and asking trans women specifically what I could put on there. And they mentioned shoes with the bigger size and I thought, you know what, my girlfriend struggles and she’s CIS, but she’s her size eight, sometimes an eight and a half. And it actually makes it, it just makes no sense because I luckily just fit in like the smallest size. I’m a seven, sometimes a six. So I’ve like just managed to like get into the men’s section. But it one it’s embarrassing how embarrassing it is as a guy to be small. Like it’s just so embarrassing to like look for the smallest size and then you might see a pair you like, but everything is just massive. So I can, I understand.

Cleo Madeleine:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s what, it’s exactly the same thing. But from the opposite end, you see a beautiful pair of shoes and you just like know, there is no way I’m getting into those, but

Jamie Franchini:
Do you know what’s crazy as well? Is that it’s not even just a trans issue. It’s a body image issue because oh 100%. It’s just ridiculous. Like I have short legs. I mean I’m like five, five or something. Eggs are quite short and it’s, I think I know there are men, my height, so why are there not more trousers? Like I can get trousers and I just roll them up at the end. But it’s the fact that I go to the mainstream shops and I know that something is gonna make me feel like absolute crap because I don’t fit in the, of like a slim tall man. And the same with my girlfriend. Like she’s been going through a lot of body image, kind of like trying to get confident, being a more curvier woman and also being a woman that actually has breasts. It’s not catered for.

Cleo Madeleine:
You’re absolutely right. It’s an example of this really common phenomenon where things that are made just seem like they’re trans issues are actually things that affect all people of all gender identities. And this is the same, whether it’s reproductive healthcare or clothing or, you know, body patients like fundamentally all of the stuff that gets perceived as a transgender issue is, is undoubtedly affecting just as many, if not more cisgender people and surely that’s even more call for an unqualified support of trans rights. Right? Cause wanna say that you should be supporting it because you support trans people. But even if you don’t support trans people, you should be supporting it because it affects CIS people as well.

Jamie Franchini:
Yeah. That’s a really challenging thing to distinguish a difference actually, because I mean, I, part of, I dunno if you’ve heard of Chrysalis. No. Okay. Yeah. So Chrysalis, they are a, and I’ve been doing group work for honestly, maybe a year now. So we I’ve had the same group meeting every two weeks, um, with like non non-binary and trans people. And every time I talk about my insecurities as a guy of being too small, getting jealous of CIS men, not feeling enough, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like everything. I bring up the leader of the group he’s assist guy and every single time, he’s like, I understand you’re struggling, but sound like the most basic man, because he’s like, yeah, that’s what EV pretty much most guys are worrying about. You know, if you are five foot 11, well you’re not six foot, you know, there’s always something like I do, you know, the amount of taller guys I see that are wearing shoes that have a massive thick. So, and I’m like give the small guys a chance, like a normal shoes. <laugh> at least let us try and catch up. <laugh>

Cleo Madeleine:
Give us a break. Uh, yeah. That’s so that’s so true though.

Jamie Franchini:
Yeah. It’s funny to realize that actually it kind of gives you a bit of gender euphoria, like when he says up and I think, yeah, I can really see that you need to just stop comparing and that’s what humans do. You know? I need to keep, I think that’s one thing I’d say to trans people actually is just compare to yourself, stop comparing, especially to CIS men, at least if you’re gonna compare, because sometimes it’s good to like, you know, I love seeing trans men that are like go to the gym a lot because I’m trying to get stronger. I love it. I love seeing really fit trans men cuz I’m like, yes, you look amazing. It is achievable. Even though I was born in a female body, I can be strong. And I think that can be like motivate. But also if you compare to your own journey, you know, I can now do 20 plus press-ups but like a year ago I can do nothing. It doesn’t matter that somebody else can do it with a weight on their back or they can do more pullups than me, you know? And I think that’s just a human error, I guess.

Cleo Madeleine:
I completely agree. We’ve heard your journey and it’s fantastic. And thank you for speaking. So candidly about it. What I would love to hear now is, is there a particular moment or moment that really changed things for you?

Jamie Franchini:
I, I mean testosterone is honestly just, I mean, unfortunately I haven’t been on it since may because I’m getting my eggs frozen. Yeah. So this is a very long process. Um, cuz you have to wait for your cycle to come back, but it’s unbelievable. The changes I’ve had, you know? Yes. The physical changes. I mean I cannot believe how much hair I have. It’s ridiculous. Like the hair is just crazy and my voice has changed and there’s just been in a year, there’s been so many changes, but I think that mentally has just wow. When I first came off of it, I noticed we’re having more arguments with my partner. Really moody, not happy. Now I’ve managed to find a little bit of a balance because I know that it’s temporary. Yeah, absolutely. But I’m, I also, with testosterone, I’ve felt like I could just relate more to CI men because I did become a little bit, not less emotional, a negative way, but well, I couldn’t really cry. That’s one thing of testosterone. If anyone hasn’t taken it yet, it does seem to, I just couldn’t really cry when I was on it, but in one way it actually helped me because I used to be a bit more on the depressive side and I have PTSD basically to sum that up. I just think mentally that’s something I was not expecting at all. But then I guess you could argue, I dunno if it was the testosterone and hormone difference or it was becoming me because I also smoked for nine years from the age of 14 and I quit smoking like two months after I came out.

Cleo Madeleine:
Congratulations.

Jamie Franchini:
Thank you. Do you know what? That was probably another big moment as well. Realizing, see, these are things you shed from your old character. You know, I smoked a lot. I drunk a lot. I was reckless and then now I still like to have fun, but it <affirmative>, it’s so cliche, but it’s just like a puzzle piece coming together. Mm. And you think, wow, I get to continue this life now. And mm. Although it’s quite a heavy thing to say, but you know, I’ve had years of not wanting to be here. Yeah. I think it’s a different journey for everyone and testosterone isn’t for everyone. I understand that some people can’t take it or they can’t take it yet or for health reasons, but for the people that are going to or want to yeah. I just hope people have the same positive experience.

Cleo Madeleine:
Yeah. It’s funny you say it’s a cliche. And actually I think a lot of the people I’ve spoken to on this podcast, including myself have been those cliches, but that I think rather than that being kind of trite or boring to me is really wonderful because it speaks to the fact that actually, even though everyone’s journey is different, we do have a kind of shared experience where we all know what it’s like to suddenly feel like the pieces fit. I don’t, I think that’s really beautiful

Jamie Franchini:
People that I guess don’t believe about being transgender and all these things. Mm. I feel like they just need to talk to people that are, because why would you want to deny someone their own life? Because time and time again, people are taking their lives. And it’s just, I don’t know. I feel like people need to just listen and actually see it from their perspective, not just yours and mm. Yeah. It’s a beautiful thing. I mean, I cannot wait to hopefully live. I, I’m not really a city person. I kind of like, I live in B, so I love being by the and nature and everything, but I do feel like I’m lacking that community and physically being with people and you know, even talking to you now, it’s just, even though we’re on opposite spectrums, it almost creates an even bigger connection because you are also able to understand. Yeah, it’s crazy. Isn’t it? You’ve technically lived a life before that I’ve always wanted. Mm. And maybe I dunno for you, but the other way, it’s just, it’s just so cool. It’s such, I feel like it’s just so many perspectives together. It’s amazing. No, I

Cleo Madeleine:
Completely agree. I think that’s what we mean by this sense of com immunity that even though our experiences and our senses of self are completely different, we are connected by a shared journey or a shared, I dunno what, you’d call it a shared

Jamie Franchini:
Spirit. And do you know what I’ve always been obsessed with drag Queens where right. I don’t know what it was, but I’ve been to a few shows. And I honestly, I, I was almost crying. I, I was so emotional about it and I never understood. And I, I would always look at them and say, wow, you are so brave. You’re you are being your, you are true self. Like you are beautiful. You are bold. And, and I, I, it’s just crazy that I never understood why. And now I understand why it makes sense. I

Cleo Madeleine:
Am conscious that we are running out of time a little, honestly, this has been an absolutely fantastic interview. Thank you so much for coming on with us. I honestly wish we could talk all day, but I have to run off at 11, but thank you so much for

Jamie Franchini:
Coming on. Yeah, no, thank you, honestly. I really appreciate the time. And um, yeah. I look forward to hearing the other podcast as well. Cuz I, I have listened to quite a lot of gender GP podcasts actually. Um, they’re really good. So thank you for doing this. No,

Cleo Madeleine:
My, my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. If you’d like to find out more about gender GP or the kinds of services that they can offer, then you can go to our website, which is www.gendergp.com. Or if you’ve got your own story to share or a suggestion for a future podcast, then you can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at GenderGP. Please do get in touch.